Cintiq and ASP11?

[Reindeer]

Since November, when I first started using it, ASP11 has rapidly become one of the applications I use the most.
Now I'm thinking about buying a Cintiq 13 HD (it would be my first Cintiq, so far I've been using regular tablets, the latest being an Intuos 5 touch), and while I have no doubt it will be a great leap forward with drawing and painting apps, I'm wondering how it will work with ASP.
I've read posts on the forum about the large Cintiqs, was just wondering if anyone's had experience with this smaller version. Thanks!

[slowtiger]

You really should try before you buy. While Cintiq and AS work together without problems usually, it's still a matter of your personal preferences. Since you already use a tablet, the slippery surface is something you're used to. So the one thing you need to have a look at is screen resolution: can you read what's on the Cintiq, and can you hit the smaller GUI elements?

[Reindeer]

That pretty much nails my doubts. The smallness of the UI, on a small screen. I am looking at the 13" Cintiq because I work very often on the go.
But screen size is not the only doubt. For example, like everyone, I tend to work with keyboard shortcuts a lot. How does that change on a Cintiq?
On a regular tablet one is quite used to drawing with the other hand on the computer (or laptop) keyboard. It becomes second nature. With a Cintiq I guess that must change, I imagine one does everything looking down at the tablet (I am aiming at the touch version, which I guess would give me extra control on menus and tools. I find touch quite useless on a regular Inutos, but with a Cintiq it might be good).
True, it still comes down to trying it first, no amount of questions and answers will go 'round that The 13" version is not too easy to find it in shops, at least not where I live, but I'll try.

[slowtiger]

I use a Cintiq for 10 years now, and I use my keyboard a lot. I don't want any Touch thingy. For delicate stuff I still use the mouse.

[drumlug13]

I have a Cintiq HD 13 (Pen Display) but I don't use it with AS. To be honest I probably didn't use them together long enough to get into a good workflow. I just personally work better with a mouse in AS.

You've probably already researched this but just fyi, the Cintiq 13's have to be connected to another computer to run your software. If you want to go outside and draw on a park bench, you have to take a laptop along too.

Keyboard shortcuts? That can be an issue with AS on the Cintiq. On the 13's you have 4 buttons plus the Rocker Ring. So you have at least 9 hot keys on the display. And those you can set up any way you would like. Depending on exactly how many hot keys you use, that may or may not be a problem

The screen size is small but it is very crisp and I haven't yet had any problems reading what is on the screen.

I'm not knocking the Cintiq 13 at all. I absolutely love it with Manga Studio. Like I said, I just personally work better in AS with the mouse and keyboard. BUT I have seen some webinars and tutorial videos with people that are obviously working with some sort of pen & tablet in AS and they are just flying around the screen super fast, so it is possible that I just didn't dedicate enough time to get into a workflow.

[Reindeer]

Drumlug, I can see what you mean. I find that ASP11's vector drawing tools are very good indeed providing you 'build' characters and stuff point by point, or by modelling raw shapes. Where I find it can be a little frustrating is in freehand drawing (the Freehand tool is much better than it used to be but I find it still too unreliable, even with smoothing set all the way left). This is why when I use ASP I switch my drawing habits from 'mostly pen and brush' to 'build point by point'. I'm not criticising ASP for this, the vector tools just work that way and have many interesting features to add expression and feel to your art, but I do find it a more mediated, somewhat colder approach than freehand drawing.
Going back to tablets, I don't use a mouse because I very often work on a laptop, so I build my characters using my Intuos 5 pro as a mouse. And it works perfectly, I can select and modify any point or group of points I want with precision.
I wouldn't buy the Cintiq13" just for ASP, of course, because its real value is seen in drawing apps (as you mentioned), but if it could do what the Intuos 5 does for me with ASP, I'd be pretty content. I have a hunch, though, or just an abstract feeling (probably just based on my present experience) that with ASP, looking down into the tablet could be actually a worst experience than not looking straight forward and using keyboard shortcuts (even having loads of shortcut options on the Intuos5, I tend to go all keyboard)
Dunno.... I'll get there

[chucky]

I'm using ASP with a cintiq 22hd as I write this , its great and works fine for asp, but I do keep mouse and keyboard handy.
I think 13 is too small to draw on , for almost any application.
THE surface is as slippery as the nib you use.
The default is too slippery, I use a rubberised tip which is actually pretty grippy, there's a felt one which is in between.
I think the 22 is the perfect size , although I'd like wacom to make it much thinner and lighter without the crystal glitter this model has, I still manage to get it into a padded artbag and shoulder it on my motorbike though so it's no that bad.Still, a truly portable art tablet @18 inch with i7 and gpu is still waiting to be manufactured, I think we would all want one of those.
I also jerry rigged a timber lap table , so I can work on the couch without crushing my little puppet legs.
You can link it via wifi to a tablet or phone for custom shortcut buttons which is awesome and the cintiq 22 has a handy usb port to keep it constantly charged.
I actually think the touch feature would be good ( I bought this second hand off a friend at a song , so I didn't get that feature, but I do have a 13 inch tablet with that feature which is good but for the small size.
I did this in freehand, it's pretty limited animation but it shows the possibilities for sketchy drawing and I am sure the freehand tools will only get better with each version.

[jahnocli]

Great stuff, Chucky!

[chucky]

Ta Jahnocli, I should mention the whole thing is using Anime Vectors with brushes. No bitmap images and drawn on a Cintiq 22 using the freehand tool.

[Reindeer]

I did this in freehand, it's pretty limited animation but it shows the possibilities for sketchy drawing and I am sure the freehand tools will only get better with each version.

Hey, great, very fresh looking animation chucky! Thanks for sharing.

True, one can get very loose and artistic feel using ASP, as you clearly just showed. To a certain degree I do use the Freehand tool, in fact, but I've found that, with ASP, drawing in an 'additive way' (so to speak) works better. It's really subjective, of course, it depends on what kind of line one is looking for. As far as I've worked with ASP so far I find that for a nice clean 'shapey' line one is probably better off building it rather than drawing it. I find myself doing this very ofter (sometimes I draw in Manga Studio and then rebuild in ASP point by point).
But, again, it's really very very subjective.

Tablet: I do move a lot for work, so I'm a little intimidated by large Cintiq's weight more than anything else. The idea of a portable Cintiq looks, or looked, pretty attractive. Best solution would be both, of course, one for home and one for travel, but, hefty cost aside, I find that once you get used to a tool (even when it's not optimal) you tend to not need more. No doubt I will not buy it without trying it first (for some reason resellers have the large ones on display but not the little one. Hum).

[Greenlaw]

I think 13 is too small to draw on , for almost any application.

I have an Cintiq 12WX at home, which is an older model. The resolution on this version is pretty low (1280 x 800), so in this case, I absolutely agree that it's too small. I made good use of it for a few years but I frequently had to move applications to my larger regular monitor and use a regular tablet because this Cintiq was just too small.

Nowadays I do a lot of my work on a Cintiq Companion 2, which is a 13 inch mobile computer version. Physically, it's only slightly bigger than my old deskbound Cintiq, but the resolution is almost double (2560 x 1440). The extra resolution makes a big difference because I can fit more workspace and panels on the screen, although I had to reduce the res (1920 x 1080) because the UI for many program become too tiny to see. At the lower res, I find it's certainly usable for drawing--I draw all my Brudders comics on it and occasionally paint with it. I think the 13 inch desktop model is similar to this model.

Like Chucky, I keep a mouse and small bluetooth keyboard handy. Technically, I can work without these devices but that's not always practical. When I'm drawing, I don't typically need them--especially since I can assign many common commands to built-in the Express Keys and there's a virtual keyboard available--but if I need to do a lot of typing or do other things besides drawing, I like to fall back on a real mouse and keyboard.

It's all relative of course. Drawing on a full size Cintiq (I use one at my workplace) is definitely a lot easier and nicer than on a 13 inch slate, but I wouldn't want to place it on my lap or carry it around either.

I would consider what you're preferred work habits are and if at all possible, try one before buying because they're pretty expensive. There are pros and cons with each form. Years ago, when I bought my old 12WX, I did regret it. At the time, I thought the device would be more portable and I could lug it to work with me to use with my laptop. In practice, that model stayed at home all the time and I wished I had gone for the bigger model instead. But nowadays I'm perfectly happy with my small 13 inch Companion--it allows me to work almost anywhere, out in the field or sitting on the sofa, and if I need to I can connect it to my desktop and use it like a regular Cintiq.

I think if the choice is between the larger or smaller desktop model, I think I'd still go for the bigger one if I could afford it. IMO, the only technical advantage with the smaller desk-bound model is that you can hold it in your lap--but you're still tethered to your computer.

[jahnocli]

Ta Jahnocli, I should mention the whole thing is using Anime Vectors with brushes. No bitmap images and drawn on a Cintiq 22 using the freehand tool.

Hats off to you. I've never really come to terms with AS freehand drawing...

[chucky]

Ta Jahnocli, I should mention the whole thing is using Anime Vectors with brushes. No bitmap images and drawn on a Cintiq 22 using the freehand tool.

Hats off to you. I've never really come to terms with AS freehand drawing...

There's A few tricks to it, like merge strokes , take off auto weld, take off tapered ends and all that stuff.
If you look at my freehand FBF tute I go into it a bit there.

[Greenlaw]

Yes, Stick Fight is fantastic Chucky! Thanks for sharing it.