A simple cel-shadedish effect. Any elaborationism welcome

[gavi dvan]

Howdy, I'm new to this rap game. While up til a ridiculous hour on yet another moho-addicted night I figured out how to do this effect... I don't know how well-known this technique is but i thought it worked wonders for my "artwork". Much better than just the standard pansy shading.

Before and after:


Now you too can try this amazing effect at home! You can either do this by going to Layer Settings\Layer Shading or by applying the Shading effect on each individual shape's Fill (I'm yet to figure out which is better, any ideas?)

-Set the direction of the shading to wherever you want (mine are to the right obviously)

-Set "offset" to about 8 (dfferent numbers may work better depending on the size of the object at hand.)

-Set "blur" to a whopping great zer0.

-With the shading colour, leave it the same colour (red, green, blue all 0) but change the "alpha" to 25.

There you have it. Wonderful.

Now if there's anyone out there smarter than me (nothing to brag about), any ideas or suggestions on improving this technique? I'm no expert when it comes to lighting and shadows and all that jazz... I know there's something wrong with the shading or lack of shadow around the nose but I'm not quite sure how to improve the situation..?

Anyways, hope I made someone's day Cheerio

[T]

I hope we get to see an animation of this two-headed half pirate guy, got my interest peaked.

[Toontoonz]

"You can either do this by going to Layer Settings\Layer Shading or by applying the Shading effect on each individual shape's Fill"

Nice look -
How are you getting the shadow to be inside the color shape using the "Layer Settings\Layer Shading" settings? When I use it the shadow is always outside the color shape - a layer shadow on every object in the entire layer. What you have done can´t be done using this method or can it?
However. if I use Styles/Effect: Shaded I get the look you have.

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Regarding the "Layer Settings\Layer Shading"
I wish in Moho one could see the shadow effect in real time and see the changes to the parameters in real time instead of having to:
1. Open layers setting/shadows to set shadow.
2. Render to view - then you want to make an adjustment to the what you see.
3. Go back to main window,
4. Open layers setting/shadows,
5. Make change in shadow parameter numbers,
6. Click okay to close layers window.
7. Render to view - you want to make a change.
Repeat series of steps until you get the look you want.

Can´t this be made to be done in real time without all these steps?

[gavi dvan]

Are you using Shadow or Shading? Shadow puts darkness outside your shapes, shading puts darkness inside them.

I've applied it by going to layer settings and going to the "Shadows" tab, on which there are two separate sections, "Layer Shadow (animated)" and "Layer Shading (animated)". All I'm using is Shading, no Shadow.

From what I can gather, applying shading this way produces identical results to filling individual shapes with shading, unless someone can shoot me down on that. Possibly the only difference being that maybe shape fill shading is not animateable (don't know about this one.)
EDIT: Another minor difference being to make shading on the right hand side of things (as in the beautiful pictures) when using style fills you'd turn the knob to the right but when applying layer shading you'd turn it to the left as this knob determines where the light source is coming from instead...doesn't seem to make a difference in results though

I'm running MoHo 5.2.1 and it has recently come to my attention that there's a version 5.3 about, I don't know what's changed but I don't think they would have taken this feature Out of the program.. Anyhoo hope your problem's an easy fix.

[Toontoonz]

Althought the Moho Shader function in the Style window is a quick fix to adding shading - I do not prefer it.

The Shading in Moho, to my taste anyway, is not real pretty and one can´t change the way Moho has set up the way it seems to be a gradient of some sort with rounded, uniform tapered curved look to it. And it animates wrong...for my taste anyway.

The way I add shading is:
Draw object on Layer 1.
Add new layer above layer 1- then draw in shapes for shading areas. The shading shape is usually black with a low alpha around 20.
It is more work to add the shadow this way, but for my taste better than the rounded, gradient "everybody´s shading in Moho looks the same" that Moho gives you.
And when the resulted Moho shaded object is animated there is something not right about it as it moves around. The shading moves around the object as the object or camera moves - that is not something one necessarily wants to happen.


Why put the shading on a second layer than on the same layer?
Because I can quickly remove it all once (make it visible/invisible), plus I don´t like Mohos method of aligning, raising and lowering different shapes within a layer. (There is no move to front, move to back for shapes.It´s click, click on the shape playing a game of which shape is above which shape.)

Then to move all the layers of the character around for animation I put them all in a group layer.

[Toontoonz]

The other pluses with do-it-yourself shading are that:
- one you can see it all the time; with Moho shading you can´t see it until you render it.
- Moho shading puts the shading where Moho wants it to go on the shape - you don´t get to decide.
- Moho shading moves how it wants when the object is animated - you have no input. When you do your own shading you can decide where and how the shading is animated.

[ulrik]

toontoonz wrote: The way I add shading is:
Draw object on Layer 1.
Add new layer above layer 1- then draw in shapes for shading areas. The shading shape is usually black with a low alpha around 20.

thanks for the tip toontoonz, I'll experiment with that, it sounds like a good way to add shadows, what about shadings? do you make them on a layer of it's own to be able to move them to your likings or...., do have a nice tip for this too?

[Toontoonz]

You can use the technique for both shadings and shadows.
I like it because it fits into my vector drawing style that I use in Adobe Illustrator.
In Illustrator one learns from experience to work lots of layers in a drawing; everything is easier to manage and adjust things. That´s how I do things in moho, too. Then one groups everything concerning a particular character into one group layer to animate.

[bupaje]

Does anyone know how Moho handles this shading internally? I mean is it actually a blur operation or does it create some hidden shape or layer? If the latter then it might be interesting as then we could ask LM to add a 'show shading layer' and you could use Moho to quickly generate shapes then edit them to make them better.

[Lost Marble]

It's just a simple blur and offset of the layer's alpha channel. No hidden internal layers are involved.

[Toontoonz]

Here is a quicky movie showing the difference between moho shading on a character and a real quick do it yourself shading as described above.
Note how Moho shading moves around object as it turns.
Click here to watch
And the Moho shading give the character a rounded, 3D look to it. Some people may like that look.

If I have some time I will attempt to make a shading using shapes and the gradient style tool. (But it would have problems - the gradient doesn´t work to good in Moho for my taste. Or I guess one could bring in gradient .png shape files and blend them into the character. Probably a better idea.)

With the DIY method one can also animate the color and opacity of the shading and its movement - perhaps making the shaded area larger or smaller. I don´t think one can do these things with the Moho built-in shading.

[ulrik]

thanks Toontoonz for showing the difference, I like your DIY shading a lot, it gets more character in it.
How do you do it then, do you make the shadings in a different layer and put it together with original shape in a folder and the animate the folder? and if so, is there no problems with bone animation?
And what if you use key interpolation inside a switch folder, is it working smooth, I mean does the shading follow exactly the original shape?
Maybe this is stupid questions but I'm really interested in the way you achive this.
Another question, about shadows the DIY way, if you have a shape and you reformate it during a couple of frames, do you then have to copy the shape with animation and then manipulate the copied shape, change the color and transparency to a shadowlike shape?

[Toontoonz]

Up front, I would say experiment with Moho - Moho can do some really strange, unexpected things things when it comes to various shapes on shapes and bones twisting and distorting things (which is why lots of people don´t like to use bones in animation) - what worked in one instance may not work in another. From my experience with Moho simple is better.

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You can put all your shapes in one layer or multiple layers. Sometimes I put everything on one layer, sometimes not - it depends on the type of animation I am doing. One does not always use bones in animating something.
I am just in the habit of working with lots of layers.

With boning it easier to eventually get all your shapes for a particular part in one layer. (The head and its parts and shading shapes in one layer, all arm shapes in one layer etc.)
When I make a body every body part has a different layer.
(See Moho Tutorial 3.4 about basic breaking body parts for boning. Note how how each body part has its own layer and how the head has lots of shapes in that layer. )

Sometimes if the drawing is complicated I first draw the different shapes on different layers and the after I am done I copy them all to one layer. If everything is drawn on one layer at once, sometimes all the different control points get confusing.

Putting all the shapes for one main part on one layer simplifies the boning process.


It would be nice if Moho had a similiar method like in Adobe Photoshop that if you have several layers you can then merge them together into one.
I suggest you experiment with things and find what you like best and you will probably even discover a new, better way to shade things.

Regarding key interpolation inside a switch folder, is it working smooth...
Answer: Yes. If everything is in a group layer the switch layer effects everything in it the same. Just layers moving around.

Not sure I understand your last question. But I as mentioned at first, it is more work to do it this way. You can animate shapes, colors, transparencies over any amount of time.

Experiment and you will find there are lots of different ways to get the same end effect you are looking for.

Multiple layers also offer the many possiblities of different layer blending modes. More things to experiment with.
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It would be nice if Moho would offer some other alternative(s) to is shading process and ways to adjust it.

[Lost Marble]

which is why lots of people don´t like to use bones in animation

Just for anyone who's new to the board, I want to make it clear that this is Toontoonz's personal opinion. I don't know why he thinks lots of people don't like bones, but from my perspective, bones are one of the main features that make people choose to use Moho. There may be lots of people that don't like bones but trust me, there are lots more that love them.

[gavi dvan]

Thanks for the ideas toonz, I'll definetly have to try out some of these things later today methinks. As of yet I haven't actually animated anything that I've shaded like this so I'm not too sure how it comes out when in motion. I still have a lot of fooling around to do!

P.S. Personally I think for my work I prefer animating characters without bones as well, moving points around and such instead, but yeah that's just me.